Yes those Companys have their value and they have added abilities to Domino no other man has thought about before.
But and this is a serious but. The Customer, also known as the one who pays your bills, does just see that when developing Domino/Notes Applications that work both ways (well three if portal is wanted too) the RAD proposal that IBM gives comes to a grinding halt. He sees that he gets 110 % of the solution in the notes client but when he wants to have the same experience in the web almost all developers start redesigning the whole application.
Show me only one (more complex, a discussion database does not count) application that works Web and Notes wise the same way WITHOUT the developers of that application investing a lot of time on a lot of different issues to solve so that it not only looks, but also feels good. And i will call this developer a wizard.
Leaning back and saying hey guys we got consultants to do that for you or this Business Partner or ISVs is not what my customer wants to hear from IBM. The message he wants to hear is. Can you stay at the speed of designing for the Notes Client with the richness of that client when it comes to a Web or Portal interface without the need for tweaks and tricks and hacking around? And i have to say. "No i cannot because the application will have this problem or that problem or another problem." (I know that those problems can be solved Jake showed a lot of the tricks to do that here.) Thank you Sir nice to talk to you but when it comes to web i will have to think about other frameworks that can do what i want to.
I think the whole discussion is not about a single feature missing. It is perhaps about that not everyone has the chance to be a BP and to be listened to. I have not. I am a customer with the possibility to give ESRs to IBM. And to mee it looks like that, because of that, a lot of things that we are talking about to IBM or trying to get into any open channel over there (sorry Ed) seems to be going into nirvana. You almost never get a feedback either positive or negative. (When it comes to communication classes one thing that is teached first is that the worst thing that can happen in a two way communication is NO communication at all.)
And yes there is a difference between strategic and operational thinking.
IBM is thinking strategic.
I am operational.
So their proposal is that they might solve my problems or a part of my problems sometime in the future.
My duty for my customers is to solve their problem NOW. And if i see that the solution for that is just a little bit out of my reach and that this goal could perhaps be easily achieved if a part of the program i use is engineered a little bit further and that no one within the organisation that builds my favorite tool can be persuaded to give a statement about if this enhancement would take place and how long it might last, the patience of my customer and after some time my patience also will wear off.
@Tony.
Yes those Companys have their value and they have added abilities to Domino no other man has thought about before.
But and this is a serious but. The Customer, also known as the one who pays your bills, does just see that when developing Domino/Notes Applications that work both ways (well three if portal is wanted too) the RAD proposal that IBM gives comes to a grinding halt. He sees that he gets 110 % of the solution in the notes client but when he wants to have the same experience in the web almost all developers start redesigning the whole application.
Show me only one (more complex, a discussion database does not count) application that works Web and Notes wise the same way WITHOUT the developers of that application investing a lot of time on a lot of different issues to solve so that it not only looks, but also feels good. And i will call this developer a wizard.
Leaning back and saying hey guys we got consultants to do that for you or this Business Partner or ISVs is not what my customer wants to hear from IBM. The message he wants to hear is. Can you stay at the speed of designing for the Notes Client with the richness of that client when it comes to a Web or Portal interface without the need for tweaks and tricks and hacking around? And i have to say. "No i cannot because the application will have this problem or that problem or another problem." (I know that those problems can be solved Jake showed a lot of the tricks to do that here.) Thank you Sir nice to talk to you but when it comes to web i will have to think about other frameworks that can do what i want to.
I think the whole discussion is not about a single feature missing. It is perhaps about that not everyone has the chance to be a BP and to be listened to. I have not. I am a customer with the possibility to give ESRs to IBM. And to mee it looks like that, because of that, a lot of things that we are talking about to IBM or trying to get into any open channel over there (sorry Ed) seems to be going into nirvana. You almost never get a feedback either positive or negative. (When it comes to communication classes one thing that is teached first is that the worst thing that can happen in a two way communication is NO communication at all.)
And yes there is a difference between strategic and operational thinking.
IBM is thinking strategic.
I am operational.
So their proposal is that they might solve my problems or a part of my problems sometime in the future.
My duty for my customers is to solve their problem NOW. And if i see that the solution for that is just a little bit out of my reach and that this goal could perhaps be easily achieved if a part of the program i use is engineered a little bit further and that no one within the organisation that builds my favorite tool can be persuaded to give a statement about if this enhancement would take place and how long it might last, the patience of my customer and after some time my patience also will wear off.